We fool ourselves thinking state capture is thing of the past - Athol Williams

Ray White interviews state capture whistleblower Athol Williams (former Bain senior partner) about the Zondo Commission report.

A screengrab of former Bain partner Athol Williams giving evidence at the state capture inquiry on 24 March 2021. Picture: SABC/YouTube

In its section on the South African Revenue Service (Sars), the State Capture report singles the institution out as being captured.

Ray White chats to Athol Williams who was a senior partner at Bain & Company, the management consultancy that reportedly helped bring Sars to its knees.

Williams testified last March about high-level corruption that implicated the firm in state capture.

He has since fled South Africa fearing for his life.

Bain & Co is one of the top three management consulting firms in the world... They work with senior executives at companies... to help them run better...
Athol Williams, Whistleblower and former senior partner - Bain & Co

Bain's got 50 offices around the world with revenues of over $4 billion... It has immense power and influence... I worked in financial services...
Athol Williams, Whistleblower and former senior partner - Bain & Co

Initially they led me to believe they wanted my help to help them do the right thing in South Africa but once I discovered that was not their intention, I quickly resigned and then went public with what I knew about Bain.
Athol Williams, Whistleblower and former senior partner - Bain & Co

Williams says the way Bain operated in markets like the US and the UK was very different to the way business was done in South Africa.

In South Africa rules were far more relaxed, the ethical standards were far lower... You can see that now, that Vittorio Massone [former SA managing partner] and the way the Bain culture was in South Africa were the perfect partners for Jacob Zuma and those intent on attacking our democracy and state institutions.
Athol Williams, Whistleblower and former senior partner - Bain & Co

I, as a partner, began growing very suspicious when I was being denied access to information... I needed to have access to.
Athol Williams, Whistleblower and former senior partner - Bain & Co

The report recommends that relevant Bain contracts be re-examined and that the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) decide on any prosecutions.

While Williams would have liked to see direct prosecution recommendations, he is satisfied that this will help lift the lid on other hidden dirt.

I think that is a profound recommendation because... it says to Bain and the world that has been listening to Bain that we know now that you've been lying... Bain wanted us to believe they were only at Sars... but they worked across every part of our public sector...
Athol Williams, Whistleblower and former senior partner - Bain & Co

I'm very pleased that at least the Zondo Commission heard my testimony saying we need to look at all Bain's work across the public sector. I think once we start digging there and lifting those lids, we are going to be shocked. We are going to see that what happened at Sars was just the tip of the iceberg of Bain and Zuma's collusion... and was repeated elsewhere...
Athol Williams, Whistleblower and former senior partner - Bain & Co

We fool ourselves for thinking state capture is a thing of the past, but we fool ourselves even more if we think these are isolated events... It's all connected as one plan... and we have to get down to individuals...
Athol Williams, Whistleblower and former senior partner - Bain & Co

Listen to Williams' insights on state capture in the audio below: